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This topic is a place for those interested in the Eamon gaming system to ask questions and share news and reviews. It's also a place to sound off about Eamon-related subjects.
Greetings, all!
Chet & Dean have asked me to conduct this Eamon forum for the sake of those of you who have an interest in Eamon. Perhaps a few newcomers will be introduced to the World of Eamon as well. I have been playing and writing Eamon since 1982, and I have found it to be the most cost-effective form of computer entertainment that I have ever run across.
Over the coming year, I will be uploading an Eamon adventure every week or so.
please feel free to sound off all you want in this forum, or to ask for help in the other Eamon topics. We are particularly anxious to hear about any bugs or fixes that you might know about.
TomZ, Eamon Guy.
It is a popular misconception among many that Eamon is a player's environment. Not so!! It is a programmer's environment.
I have never done any computing that is remotely as addictive as writing and programming an Eamon adventure. Of course, this is largely a matter of personal taste, but it is really a thrill to see your hard work come together in an Eamon adventure that other people actually enjoy playing.
I know one former Eamon author who had to give up writing Eamons because he was badly neglecting his job and his family, and he had to choose which was more important to him.
The Eamon programming tools haven't yet been uploaded, but they will be in the next week or two.
TOMZ
The latest update of the EAG Eamon list is now available in the library. It lists 206 known Eamon adventures plus auxilliary programs. Includes authors, descriptor notes, and the EAG ratings poll. It is file #14580 in library 33.
TomZ, Eamon guy
I just recently uploaded a copy of the Eamon Adventurer's Guild newsletter for you Eamon players out there who haven't seen one. The uploaded copy was the December 1990 issue. It looks a little weird in the AWP disk file because we print the newsletter in a two-column format, and the uploaded files were meant to be dumped to a printer for a subsequent cut-and-paste operation. The printed copy looks better-- trust me! *8-) But here it is for you all to look at. This issue was picked more or less because it was the first disk I picked up, but it covers most of the regular features fairly well. We also run historical and opinion articles as we get them from the membership; occasional tutorials that are sometimes much more advanced or basic than this one; listings of Eamon sources; listings of Eamon pen-pals; cartoons; and the occasional article that is simply wacky and fun. If you feel that you would want to receive this newsletter on a regular basis, you can find the info on page 2. Or send $7 to the address in topic one.
I hope that you enjoy the reading.
TomZ
BIG NEWS FOR EAMON ON GENIE!!
Eamon now has it's own library here in A2.
All ProDOS Eamon files now reside in library 36. The ProDOS Games library no longer has any Eamon stuff in it. The DHR pictures that were in library 36 can now be found in library 35, in a common HR/DHR picture library (the DHR stuff is stated as such in the descriptions).
With the Eamon library approaching 100 files, it was getting rather hard to find other ProDOS games among the Eamon stuff. With the new setup, you will be able to find what you want more easily.
TomZ, Eamon guy
Here's a couple of hints for you newcomers to Eamon:
You can get past the "dragon" screen by hitting any key as soon as the disk stops spinning.
The "Save" command tells you to run the program named MAIN.PGM to resume a saved game. This program is the very program that performs the Save. If you want to do a quick Save before you try something that looks dangerous, do this: Do the Save command; type RUN to restart the MAIN.PGM (which is already in RAM), and answer "Y" to the "resume saved game?" question. This procedure will save off the game and get you restarted in seconds.
If you get killed, here's how to get your saved game restarted: When you are prompted to "insert the Eamon Master disk and hit C", hit <Control-C> instead. This will kill the MAIN.PGM. Then simply type RUN and answer "Y" to the "resume saved game?" question. (Obviously, this will only work if you have saved a game!) If you haven't done a previous save, typing <Control-C> and RUN will restart the game without requiring you to return to the Main Hall or to reread the Introduction text.
If you made a bad move and simply want to restart the game or resume a saved game, you can type <Control-C> at the YOUR COMMAND prompt to kill the game. Then simply type RUN to restart it.
If you want to look around in a ProDOS Eamon database with the EDIT or LIST programs on the Dungeon Designer Disk, you must first reconstitute the files EAMON.MONSTERS and EAMON.ARTIFACTS by running the program MAKE.ARTS.MONS. The ProDOS Eamons make use of a saved variable file (FAST.START) for faster startups; and these two files are what is contained in FAST.START. The original text files were deleted before uploading to save download charges for you. If you make any changes in these two files with the EDIT program, you must regenerate the FAST.START file by running the program MAKE.FAST.START.
TomZ, Eamon guy
Lots of people ask me which Eamon adventures are the best ones to download. Well, everyone has his own special likes and dislikes when adventuring. Here's a list of the top 20 Eamon adventures as determined by the EAG ratings poll. Your own tastes may not specifically agree with this list, but it is probably a fair guideline for a few adventures that you would likely enjoy. The scale is 1-10 with 10 the best, and no Adventure has been rated by its author:
GEnie Average # of File# Adventure Rating raters ----- ---------------------------- ------- ------ 11432 124 Assault on Dolni Keep 9.2 4 12588 161 Operation Endgame 9.1 4 11436 114 Thror's Ring 9.0 4 11801 78 The Prince's Tavern 9.0 3 14667 194 Attack of the Kretons 9.0 2 11803 120 Orb of My Life 9.0 1 13730 204 Sanctuary 9.0 1 11502 150 Walled City of Darkness 8.8 2 10933 147 The Dark Brotherhood 8.7 3 11845 129 Return to Moria 8.5 3 11686 166 Storm Breaker 8.5 2 11430 108 The Mines of Moria 8.3 3 12872 145 Buccaneer! 8.3 3 13705 148 Journey to Jotunheim 8.2 4 11812 121 Wrenhold's Secret Vigil 8.2 2 12722 47 FutureQuest 8.0 4 11427 91 FutureQuest II 8.0 4 14384 117 Dungeon of Doom 8.0 3 13026 77 Temple of the Trolls 8.0 2 11064 76 The Search for Yourself 8.0 1
As you play Eamon adventures, please feel free to rate them yourself. Post your ratings here or Email them to me, and I will incorporate them into the EAG ratings poll.
If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to make up a list for the next 20, also.
TomZ, Eamon guy
Here's a couple of tips for you to keep track of what's in our Eamon library here on GEnie:
First, a fresh Appleworks ADB index of the Eamon library is uploaded to Library 19 every month or so.
If you don't have Appleworks or if you don't want to bother downloading the ADB file, here's a trick to get an alphabetized listing of the Eamon library. Instead of using option 2 to get a library index, use option 3 and search on the keyword EAMON. The search routine will give you an Eamon index in alphabetical and numerical order. You can capture this listing and print it out for your own up-to-the minute Eamon index.
TomZ
Has anyone tried the Eamon HCGS that if floating around on the BBS's and if so is it any good? What is it like....... Dave
>>> D.CHEEVER
We have that Hypercard version of Eamon here on GEnie.
I hate to sound mean, but it's not very good at all. It's VERY VERY VERY slow, and rather primitive. It needs a lot of improvement before it's worth bothering with.
There are some nice things about it. It has lots of potential. Unfortunately the guy who wrote it will not be developing it further, so unless someone else picks it up, it'll never be improved.
Dean Esmay
Anyone out there interested in helping me build up my eamon adventure collection? I figured out if I tried to collect all the current adventures it would cost me over $200 in downloads. I do have some interesting commercial software I might trade for (such as Immortal gs and Sub Battle).
This topic has been archived and all messages before Jan 1 have been deleted. The archive may be found in Library 36, file 16213.
TomZ
Hi Tom Z - I guess it must be close to 18 months ago that I assured you that I would get a mention of Eamon and the EAG into inCider/A+. Better late than never is what my mom always used to say. Have you seen the 6/92 issue of inCider? If not, pick up a copy, and I think you'll be pleased with my "Catch of the Day" article.
Out of curiosity, I'd like to hear how many people contact you.
Keep up the good work!
Joe Kohn
Joe, I haven't yet seen the June inCider, but I visit the B.Dalton store every day, waiting for it to come in! *8-) So far, I've gotten 5 inquiries and two new memberships, and it's only been a week since the first one showed up. Got three just today!
I'm really looking forward to seeing the article. Thanks!
TomZ
p
you have on line . Most of these first 24 are not here anymore. Whatever happened to Don Brown. Parenthetically, is he from Houston, by any chance.
>>B.BAKER22
Your post got munged somehow. All that got posted was your question about Don Brown. Please repost your questions or comments. Thanks. (You can see what your post will look like with the *p command, by the way.)
Don Brown was living in the Des Moines area when he invented Eamon. He hung around the local Apple store with many of the earliest Eamon authors. After Eamon had been around for a short time, Don expanded Eamon into the commercial Swordthrust series. As I got the story from John Nelson, Don then tried to kill Eamon off and yank it back out of the public domain so that it wouldn't compete with or give copyright problems to Swordthrust. Around this time Don dropped out of Eamon and John took it for his own and expanded and improved it. In other words, you could make the argument that Don Brown may have invented Eamon, but John Nelson is the real Father of Eamon.
This story may require taking with a grain of salt since it was John Nelson who told it to me, but it makes sense. All of Don's Eamons are VERY early versions and rather crude, and John did make all the revisions that led up to the version 6.2 Eamon MAIN PGM.
Don Brown has been a Mac guy for years and is now a recognized authority on Mac viruses. Last I heard he was living in the Denver area somewhere. He does NOT want to hear from Eamon people.
TomZ
Thanks for the kind words, Goose. I get my rewards by getting to connect with neat people from all over the world. It's a lot of fun and worth the work it takes to get ProDOS and GS users interested in Eamon, too.
The Top Ten Eamons, by the EAG Ratings Poll, are:
124 Assault on Dolni Keep 114 Thror's Ring 78 The Prince's Tavern 194 Attack of the Kretons 120 Orb of My Life 204 Sanctuary 161 Operation Endgame 150 Walled City of Darkness 147 The Dark Brotherhood 129 Return to Moria
You might take the three Eamons by me in that list with a grain of salt-- I suspect that the rating of my own adventures may be skewed upwards since people send the ratings to me for processing and would naturally tend to let me off lightly since I know who they are. *8-)
You might want to D/L file 19409 EAMON.LISTS.BXY. It contains several listings of Eamon adventures, organized in different ways for easy extraction of useful information. It will help you decide which Eamons to play.
Goose, most Eamons require about 60-90 minutes to play. Some of the most complex ones may take as much as 6-8 hours, but on the other hand many take no more than 30 minutes. My own "Assault on Dolni Keep", the #1 rated Eamon adventure, takes about an hour to play. It is a smallish adventure with an exceptionally high count of special features and effects. If you are willing to invest two hours, "Attack of the Kretons" is _extremely_ good. And if you want to blow it out, "Sanctuary" gets my vote as the Best Eamon ever written.
If you are still basically an Eamon rookie, I strongly suggest that you start with file 16750 STARTER.KIT.BXY. It contains selected adventures that are on the easy side but are also generally well-crafted.
You would also find the EAG newsletter very worthwhile when choosing Eamons, as each issue contains an average of four adventure reviews.
TomZ
Tom,
Do you have some kind of "press release" about Eamon? I'd like to include some info about it in our Diskovery on Softdisk (8-bit). I'm sure that a lot of our subscribers are ignorant both to it in general and to the enhancements that you've been making.
Just a brief blurb about what Eamon is and where they can get more information about it would be great!
Bryan
Thanks for the kind words, Goose.
You're welcome! Hard work has a way of earning kind word...or so my daddy used to tell me..:)
I'll try and try out some of those soon. Course I've been trying to get to learning C for the last 4 months also...but the Prime thing got in the way.
We shall see. 60-90 minutes for the normal computer mortal means that I will take me about 8 hours...(I'm _that_ good at games...<grin>) but at least its not days and days to finish one.
Thanks for the tips on the lists and the better adventures. I'll come crying for help before too long....
Goose - Prime Librarian
X400: c:us a:mci p:Kodak dda:id=EKX400.WGOOSEY
Internet: dda=id=EK400.WGOOSEY%Kodak@mcimail.com
Following your review of Demongate I sent it out to several schools and classrooms only to get reports on a lot of cosmetic problems back. This from mainly 4th to 8th graders. I wrote this up as a sort of opposing viewpoint and then had second thoughts as I don't want to sound too negative about a lot of cosmetic details. Any interest in a disk with some of these cosmetic things taken care off? None of them affect the play of the adventure in a major way........
Dave
>Dave Cheever
"Demongate" has some cosmetic problems...
Uh, what's a "cosmetic problem"? Spelling errors and bad line breaks? How many are we talking about? I fixed about a zillion of them while playtesting that thing, but I have no doubt that I missed some. Hoyle is an incredibly bad speller.
Sure, if you want to clean up the database, it would be swell to get a copy uploaded. I'll D/L it and distribute it on my end, too.
When you do, though, I'd appreciate it if you updated the "REV" program in the catalog to a new date, so we can distinguish it from the cosmetically challenged one.
TomZ
The latest Softdisk, issue 137, has a brand-new Eamon game on it. It's called "Redemption", and was written by Sam Ruby especially for Softdisk.
The basic story is this: while fleeing for your life, you arrive nearly penniless in a kingdom that is plagued by a dragon. Seeing as that you are fleeing because your scheme to kill another dragon went seriously awry, you see this as the perfect opportunity to redeem yourself.
This thing is =great=. The best single-disk Eamon that Sam has ever done. He put all of his considerable talent into designing this specifically for newcomers to Eamon. What he wound up with is an adventure that is rich in story, has complex plot development, and isn't as hard as his adventures often are.
If you don't subscribe to Softdisk, you will definitely find it worth your while to buy this issue from them.
TomZ
Yeah! What TomZ said! :)
If you are interested in Softdisk, or would like to see more Eamon adventures on Softdisk, let us know! Stop by category 34 here in A2.
- Bryan Pietrzak
Softdisk Publishing
>>B.BAKER22
"Redemption"
Bruce, Sam Ruby fine-tunes his games for the characters that he supplies. His plots are so complex that they collapse if you use your usual tactical- nuke-toting super-character to bulldoze through the bad guys. In other words, if you don't solve the confrontations the way Sam intends you to, it's very likely that succeeding confrontations will be all screwed up or may not even appear at all.
I find that "Redemption" is one the fairest, easy-to-recover-from-screwups Eamon adventures ever written. If you screwed something up beyond hope, then you were slamming through the scenario without really reading it. Trust me: you CAN'T do that in a Ruby adventure.
If you need to start over, so be it. USE the Save command. Read very carefully. Talk to everyone. PAY ATTENTION to what they tell you; in some cases one character will tell you what to say to get a response from someone else. It's sometimes worth mentioning the dragon's name. This adventure revolves around talking with the citizens.
If you manage all of this, you will know when it's time to slay the dragon, because you will have learned how =he= can kill =you= and how to protect yourself. You will also know where to find him, because by then you will have the directions to his lair.
Enough money to gain the stuff you need is readily available. If you don't know where to get it, then you either haven't talked to the right person or else you ignored his advice.
Good luck! TomZ
I'd like to take a moment to remind all Eamonauts that the club has a very generous exchange program for Eamons that aren't in the list. Submission of a half-way decent Eamon to the EAG will earn you anywhere from 4-up freebie Eamons of your choice in exchange.
TomZ
Just finished playing Banana Republic. It is on SD !#152. Another great adventure by Sam Ruby. If you like his work you will probably like it... political content aside..... Dave
It was a lot of fun .. critic it for us.
The one thing that gets me about some of Sam Ruby's Eamons is that some of them are so BIG! (3 OR 4 DISKS) I personally prefer shorter, like 1 or maybe 2 disks for my Eamons . I must pick up "Redemption" from softdisk sometime soon- I've been meaning to do that for awhile now. I don't mean to sound too harsh about Sam's Eamons here- I'd say that he probably comes up with the best plot scenarios and some of the toughest Eamons to solve- not bad at all!
Hi,
I played Eamon back when it first came out, and even wrote an adventure that people liked that saw it, but I never released widely ("The Domain of Zenoqq" for any of you that /did/ see it; fairly difficult (for the time, anyway)). Yes, it's DOS 3.3. Are the games people are now playing ProDOS based? If so, is there a new DDD available, and were the restrictive limits on the data files (rooms, monsters, etc.) increased. If there's any interest in my old game, I could dust it off & upload it (either in original DOS 3.3, or ProDOS-ified).
Yes, I know I could probably get these answers by doing a file search, but I haven't gotten around to it yet, and figured I'd ask.
Bob Claney
>>>CLANEY [Bob Claney]
is there a new DDD available, and were the restrictive limits on the data files (rooms, monsters, etc.) increased.
Bob, here are the current Eamon Dungeon Designer Disks:
21219 EAMON.D.DD7.BXY X T.ZUCHOWSKI 930822 82048 12 42
Desc: DOS 3.3 Eamon Dungeon Designer v7.1
21218 EAMON.DDD71.BXY X T.ZUCHOWSKI 930822 82688 65 36
Desc: ProDOS Eamon Dungeon Designer v7.1
The v.7 Eamon system increased the allowable number of rooms, monsters, effects, and artifacts from 100 each to 200 each. There is also a supplement disk for the DOS 3.3 version that increases these numbers pretty much indefinitely.
The version you used was probably 4 or 5. Version 7 is a LOT better in every conceivable way and you should use it for any future Eamons you write.
Are the games people are now playing ProDOS
While there is some interest in ProDOS Eamons, about 95% of all Eamon activity still remains on the DOS 3.3 side. I don't really quite know why this is so. It may be that Eamon authors and players tend to be people with limited hardware who are attracted to Eamon because of its modest requirements. Though there are over 100 ProDOS Eamons available here, to date I have only seen two Eamons (apart from Sam Ruby's EXCELLENT Softdisk Eamons) that originated in ProDOS. One of these Eamons has not yet been released, and the other was converted to DOS 3.3 and is available both ways.
Be sure to get yourself a listing of A2 Library 36 to see what's available in ProDOS. If you Set to Library 36 and do a search on EAMON, you will get an alphabetized listing.
If there's any interest in my old game, I could dust it off & upload it (either in original DOS 3.3, or ProDOS-ified).
=>YES!<= We would really like to get ahold of your Eamon for general release. If it's OK with you, I'd like to take a look at it before you upload it. There are a number of bug fixes and speed enhancements I'd like to be sure are in place before it's released. If you'd like to mail a copy to the EAG, we will trade you a few Eamons in exchange. The EAG has a policy of rewarding people who find and send in old Eamons. You'll get something between 4 and 10 Eamons for your trouble. Send it to:
Eamon Adventurer's Guild
7625 Hawkhaven Dr.
Clemmons, NC 27012-9408
If you'd prefer to upload it, that's OK too. But it really is a good idea to get it checked out before general distribution. If you want a ProDOS version in general distribution, I can probably do that easier than you can; I've done over 100 of them and have the procedure down pat. <g>
TomZ, Eamon Guy
Tom,
Bob, here are the current Eamon Dungeon Designer Disks:
Thanks, I'll pick up the ProDOS version next pass.
The v.7 Eamon system increased the allowable number of rooms, monsters, effects, and artifacts from 100 each to 200 each.
Still somewhat restrictive, but an improvement. I really had to cut to get /The Domain of Zenoqq/ to fit in 99 rooms, and I gave up implementing another adventure after seeing what it would look like trimmed down that far.
The version you used was probably 4 or 5. Version 7 is a LOT better in every conceivable way and you should use it for any future Eamons you write.
This was a LOT of years ago, although it was after the DDD formatted the game disk with the volume # as the adventure number, and with a somewhat enhanced renumbering of the base game program. Where would I look for the version number?
While there is some interest in ProDOS Eamons, about 95% of all Eamon activity still remains on the DOS 3.3 side. I don't really quite know why this is so. It may be that Eamon authors and players tend to be people with limited hardware who are attracted to Eamon because of its modest requirements. Though there are over 100 ProDOS Eamons available here, to date I have only seen two Eamons [...] that originated in ProDOS.
This is a shame. The main reason I haven't done anything with Eamon in several years is that I /very/ rarely fire up the 5 1/4" drive. I'd personally rather have the adventures residing in subdirectories that the main hall program would switch to to run each adventure. Even on 3 1/2" disks, this would allow at least 5 adventures along with the main hall. Besides, a save game feature would be ridiculously easy in ProDOS, while I only saw 1 "classic" 3.3 game that attempted it :)
Be sure to get yourself a listing of A2 Library 36 to see what's available in ProDOS. If you Set to Library 36 and do a search on EAMON, you will get an alphabetized listing.
(Yes, I should've done this already; thank's for not chastizing me. :) I'll be sure to do that. I wouldn't think that there would be many differences between 3.3 & ProDOS games, especially if things were planned ahead so they would be easily swapped.
If there's any interest in my old game, I could dust it off & upload it (either in original DOS 3.3, or ProDOS-ified).
=>YES!<= We would really like to get ahold of your Eamon for general release. If it's OK with you, I'd like to take a look at it before you upload it. There are a number of bug fixes and speed enhancements I'd like to be sure are in place before it's released.
OK, It's fine with me. I was briefly toying with converting it to the new game version, but I've made many modifications to the program, such as synonyms, multiple monster resolution, etc., but the main ones I can remember now are allowing an object to be "wave"d (a game artifact makes this important, although money & weapons can also be waved, affecting monsters' attitudes), and the antagonist asking if you want to be resurrected if you get killed (at a cost, of course }:). So, it'd probably be non-trivial to convert this straight to v7.1. After I look at how the ProDOS version of the game communicates with the main hall, though, I can probably make a fairly painless conversion to ProDOS, though.
Oh, I just remembered something. Do present games still display text all upper-case? I seem to remember that mine does, and I think I'd like to fix that, unless that would cause a problem for others.
If you'd like to mail a copy to the EAG, we will trade you a few Eamons in exchange. The EAG has a policy of rewarding people who find and send in old Eamons. You'll get something between 4 and 10 Eamons for your trouble.
Um, OK, that sounds interesting :) Is the scale on how interesting the adventure is? ;)
Send it to:
I suppose that means 5 1/4" disk in a mailer. Can't I send it as attached mail to you, or upload it somewhere? I take it you're somehow affiliated with the EAG?
If you'd prefer to upload it, that's OK too. But it really is a good idea to get it checked out before general distribution.
I don't have any problems with this.
If you want a ProDOS version in general distribution, I can probably do that easier than you can; I've done over 100 of them and have the procedure down pat. <g>
Yep, you probably do :) I'm assuming it's just changing a couple of filenames, and probably changing the method to return to the main hall. Hmm, does the ProDOS version now chain so that Fresh.Meat isn't needed anymore? Depending on what you say & what I find when I get the new DDD, I might be spending a little time "lower-casing" the text anyway. Just out of curiosity, is there documentation somewhere on how the DOS 3.3 and ProDOS versions differ. I might decide to ProDOSify some of the other old games I have so that I can play them again :) Of course, if I find improved versions in the library here, I'll probably just dl them.
Bob Claney
>>>CLANEY
Wow. Long post. *8-) And a long reply. *8-(
Yes, the 200-room limit of v7.0 is still =somewhat= restrictive, but: (a) there is a (DOS 3.3) multi-disk version that can accommodate any number of rooms, (b) several powerful reasons make it desireable to split very large Eamons into a multiple-Eamon set that chain to one another instead of to the Main Hall, (c) only one guy in the history of Eamon has ever needed more than 200 rooms, and that just for two adventures (#149 & #204), (d) Sam would have written his own system anyway....*8-)
The 200-room limit was determined by the fact that a 5.25 disk only has room for about 300 EAMON.DESC records. Multi-Eamon sets really are the way to go. Be sure to check out some of Sam Ruby's big ones, such as "Operation Endgame" and "Sanctuary" to see how to do it with just one MAIN.PGM.
Where would I look for the version number?
The version number is the last entry in EAMON.NAME for v5-7, with no number for older ones. There is a also program in the EAG Eamon Utilities that will tell you everything there is to know about an Eamon.
I'd personally rather have the adventures residing in subdirectories that the main hall program would switch to
Precisely how it is done for the 100+ ProDOS Eamons here on GEnie. Don't forget that these ProDOS Eamons are the "top half" of the list. Most of the ones that weren't converted don't deserve it.
a save game feature would be ridiculously easy in ProDOS, while I only saw 1 "classic" 3.3 game that attempted it :)
Boy, you HAVE been gone a long time. Virtually every DOS 3.3 Eamon has a "Save" command. Save is part of the command set in v5-7, and was retrofitted to the vast majority of older ones also.
it'd probably be non-trivial to convert [Zenogg] straight to v7.1.
Count on it. It's almost certainly not worth the effort. Although a lot of things you added come standard in v7.1, you'd have to redo them from scratch to fit the different program.
Do present games still display text all upper-case? I seem to remember that mine does, and I think I'd like to fix that
You'll see both 40-col. all-caps Eamons and 80-col. mixed-text Eamons in the library. My thinking is that anyone with lower-case capability will prefer 80-col, making a lower-case 40-col. version unnecessary. I have utility programs for converting Eamons to lower-case and can do this a lot easier than you can do it manually. (The utilities have never been released because they, shall we say, "lack polish".)
To recap, I strongly advise against a 40-col. lower-case version. An 80-col. version is much preferred, as well as a 40-col. upper-case one.
Send it to:
I suppose that means 5 1/4" disk in a mailer.
Not necessarily. You can send it archived on a 3.5 disk which I would return to you, or you can upload it to the Eamon library. If you upload it, put PRIVATE-DO NOT RELEASE in the short description, and A2.Tony will ignore it. I have access to unreleased files and can download it.
does the ProDOS version now chain so that Fresh.Meat isn't needed anymore?
No. FRESH.MEAT is still used. Chaining is a =really= bad idea, because then you wind up with umpteen K of MAIN.HALL variables taking up BADLY-needed memory space. We only have 33K to play with! BTW, the ProDOS Main Hall uses the LEADIN program as a flag to find Eamon folders.
I take it you're somehow affiliated with the EAG?
Basically, I =am= the EAG. A "staff" of one. *8-) You may be interested in joining our group, to get the newsletter.
TomZ
Wow. Long post. *8-) And a long reply. *8-(
Sorry! I do tend to run on :)
Yes, the 200-room limit of v7.0 is still =somewhat= restrictive, but: (a) there is a (DOS 3.3) multi-disk version that can accommodate any number of rooms,
Ack! Something I'd rather avoid ;)
(b) several powerful reasons make it desirable to split very large Eamons into a multiple-Eamon set that chain to one another instead of to the Main Hall,
Of course, you could probably also keep one program, & switch the data files you're using, to avoid duplicating the program file.
(c) only one guy in the history of Eamon has ever needed more than 200 rooms, and that just for two adventures (#149 & #204),
Gee, perhaps I should try to find my notes from the deep-dark past for the 350+ room game I was contemplating ;)
(d) Sam would have written his own system anyway....*8-)
I'm somewhat lost, here. Is it my high specific gravity?
The 200-room limit was determined by the fact that a 5.25 disk only has room for about 300 EAMON.DESC records. Be sure to check out some of Sam Ruby's big ones [...] to see how to do it with just one MAIN.PGM.
OK, I'll do that!
Where would I look for the version number?
The version number is the last entry in EAMON.NAME for v5-7, with no number for older ones
I'll check to see what, if anything, I find.
Well, I just found my box of Eamons. The .Name file for DoZ just has the name, so it's an older version. Btw, as an indication of how long I've been out of Eamon, the last adventure I have is #26, "Assault on the Mole Man", and I'm missing a few in the middle.
I'd personally rather have the adventures residing in subdirectories that the main hall program would switch to
Precisely how it is done for the 100+ ProDOS Eamons here on GEnie.
Great!
Don't forget that these ProDOS Eamons are the "top half" of the list. Most of the ones that weren't converted don't deserve it.
Oh, I don't know. I enjoyed some of the old ones "way back when" :) Of course, I suppose they pale compared to the newer ones.
a save game feature would be ridiculously easy in ProDOS, while I only saw 1 "classic" 3.3 game that attempted it :)
Boy, you HAVE been gone a long time. Virtually every DOS 3.3 Eamon has a "Save" command. Save is part of the command set in v5-7, and was retrofitted to the vast majority of older ones also.
How? The hacky BSAVEing of the variable space, or writing out the important vars to a file?
it'd probably be non-trivial to convert [Zenogg] straight to v7.1.
Um, that's "Zenoqq", not that it matters :)
Count on it. It's almost certainly not worth the effort. Although a lot of things you added come standard in v7.1, you'd have to redo them from scratch to fit the different program.
Possibly as a programming exercise when/if I have the time, though.
Do present games still display text all upper-case? I seem to remember that mine does, and I think I'd like to fix that
You'll see both 40-col. all-caps Eamons and 80-col. mixed-text Eamons in the library.
OK, unless I change DoZ to 80col, I'll leave it all upper-case (ugh).
I have utility programs for converting Eamons to lower-case and can do this a lot easier than you can do it manually. (The utilities have never been released because they, shall we say, "lack polish".)
Probably like most of the mixed-casing routines I've written :) (Work fine as long as you use them /exactly/ correctly, & watch for bad conversions.)
I suppose that means 5 1/4" disk in a mailer.
Not necessarily. You can send it archived on a 3.5 disk which I would return to you, or you can upload it to the Eamon library.
OK, do you have a particular preference? Uploading would be cheaper than $0.52 for mailing the disk (unless that disk were mostly full), but I can do whatever you prefer.
I grabbed the results of a search on "Eamon", but didn't notice mention in the short descriptions of whether a particular game is 40 or 80 columns in many cases. There's a group labeled ProDOS with no indication of 40/80, and another group labeled P8, which I assume also indicates ProDOS, that does. Btw, where's the DOS 3.3 ones? What's currently more popular for ProDOS versions, and is there any desire to have both 40 & 80 column ProDOS versions?
Looking through the list & comparing it to the ones I have, I notice that my #16 is named "Furioso", while the one in the library is labeled "The Caves of Mondamen", and there's no Furioso elsewhere. Are the other numbers that aren't there but that I have, missing because they're considered "bad", or are they lost? Fyi, the #'s I have that aren't listed are: 2, 3, 4, 7, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, & 17 (plus the version of 16 I have).
Chaining is a =really= bad idea, because then you wind up with umpteen K of MAIN.HALL variables taking up BADLY-needed memory space.
Well, if variable use was laid out between the 2 programs, then you could make sure most/all of the vars overlapped, so that that wouldn't be a problem (just clearing unneeded long strings before the chain). OTOH, of course, it /is/ simpler to just run the other program. :)
Basically, I =am= the EAG. A "staff" of one. *8-) You may be interested in joining our group, to get the newsletter.
So, how does one join your group, & what are the costs?
Oh, yes. When I found the box of Eamon disks (& dusted them off ;), I also found an adventure named "The Den of Orion" written by a friend of mine around the same time (read, over 10 years ago). I was wondering if you have this one? If not, would you want it, and even if you do, would it even be kosher to give it to you? As far as I can recall, he had no qualms about distributing it, and was giving it to anyone who would take it :) I haven't talked to him in a few years, so getting specific permission would be difficult.
Bob Claney
>>>CLANEY [Bob Claney]
I'm somewhat lost, here. Is it my high specific gravity?
Heh. No, I was just trying to keep my =long= post as short as I could. The guy who wrote the two very large Eamons was Sam Ruby. He has a tendency to do massive MAIN PGM rewrites and would have probably done his own "large Eamon" system even if one had been available. In #149, he basically wrote 4 Eamons that chained together. In #204, he did as you suggested and used 3 data disks with a single MAIN.PGM. I must add that #204 is a lot more complex than that from the author's point of view, because each of the data disks must contain identical "global" data for all items and monsters that can travel between disks.
Um, I gave you bum data on how to determine Eamon versions. Version 4 EAMON.NAME files contain the name only. V5 also contains the # of directions. V6-7 also contain the version #. So DoZ is v4, as you surmised. V4 is the oldest version extant.
Don't forget that these ProDOS Eamons are the "top half" of the list.
Oh, I don't know. I enjoyed some of the old ones "way back when" :)
I think you misunderstand. The EAG runs a rating poll of Eamons. The "top half" that I refer to is the =best= 100+ Eamons, and not the most recent ones. There are many old Eamons in the ProDOS list.
Saved game variables are normally BSAVEd in DOS 3.3. ProDOS Eamons of course use the ProDOS VAR save feature. There are a few Eamons that write the important vars to a TXT file, but they are unusual because this method entails a big RAM hit and is much more difficult to write. V7 DOS 3.3 Eamons also use a BSAVE file to start the game, which saves a lot of time. Likewise, ProDOS Eamons use a VAR file for the quick-launch.
I don't really care how you get your Eamon to me. I prefer to do business through the US mail, but I'm not fanatic about it. 8-)
I grabbed the results of a search on "Eamon", but didn't notice mention in the short descriptions of whether a particular game is 40 or 80 columns in many cases.
The Eamons labelled "80-col." are 80-col. lower-case; the ones not labelled are 40-col. upper-case. Note that the names are different (the 40-col. ones have a "P" in the filename), so they sort by display as well as by number. This is mentioned in the library description, BTW.
Btw, where's the DOS 3.3 ones?
When I first started doing Eamon here in A2, I insisted on having both DOS 3.3 and ProDOS, in spite of warnings from the head librarian that this was a =>Bad Idea<=. Sure enough, in no time I started getting angry email from people who tried to run DOS 3.3 Eamons from the ProDOS Eamon Master. A surprising number of people don't read the long file descriptions and don't pay attention to what library a file is in. Also, you'd be quite amazed at how many people don't even know that DOS 3.3 exists, let alone what it is.
What's currently more popular for ProDOS versions, and is there any desire to have both 40 & 80 column ProDOS versions?
Dunno. How do the download hits compare? 8-) When I do a conversion, I convert the DOS 3.3 version to 40-col. ProDOS, then convert that to 80-col. I distribute both the 40-col. and 80-col. versions to the mail order outfits. GS users show a STRONG preference for 80-col.
my #16 is named "Furioso", while the one in the library is labeled "The Caves of Mondamen", and there's no Furioso elsewhere.
When I began the EAG in 1988, all the P-D vendors were using their own Eamon numbering systems. I was successful in getting nearly everyone on board to use the EAG as a central "clearing house" of Eamon, and the EAG number is "official" now. In other words, your number is wrong. *8-)
The missing numbers in the A2 library are Eamons that didn't make the cut. "Furioso", for example, is rated 5.3 in the EAG poll, and my cutoff for conversion was 6.0. Some day I'll probably get back in the saddle and do a bunch more conversions. It's not the conversion but the testing that wears me down 8-(.
Note that the poll listing is available in the Eamon library.
So, how does one join your group, & what are the costs?
Dues are $7.00 per year, which is close to zero profit for the newsletter and overhead costs. I don't take a penny out of the club, but extend everyone's membership whenever enough excess money accumulates to cover an extra issue. Send your money to:
Eamon Adventurer's Guild
7625 Hawkhaven Dr.
Clemmons, NC 27012-9408
Presently the newsletter is running a series of articles that give a verbal description of what every single line in the MAIN.PGM does. It also includes adventure reviews and other stuff of interest to Eamonauts.
I found an adventure named "The Den of Orion" written by a friend of mine...I was wondering if you have this one? If not, would you want it
=>YES<= I want it! I have not seen that Eamon listed or sold by anyone. I'd really like to add it to the list and put it into distribution. As far as "kosher" goes, all Eamon is public-domain (except for the two that Softdisk published) and free to one and all. Unless he had a reason for keeping it close, I think he'd want to see his hard work shown to the world, don't you?
TomZ
Tom,
The guy who wrote the two very large Eamons was Sam Ruby. He has a tendency to do massive MAIN PGM rewrites and would have probably done his own "large Eamon" system even if one had been available.
Ah, my specific gravity is much reduced :)
In #204, he did as you suggested and used 3 data disks with a single MAIN.PGM. I must add that #204 is a lot more complex than that from the author's point of view, because each of the data disks must contain identical "global" data for all items and monsters that can travel between disks.
Is this a result of "great minds thinking alike" :) True, I hadn't thought about needing to duplicate stuff, but as long as you map out what number things are (& where they can be), it wouldn't be /too/ bad.
V5 also contains the # of directions.
This must be the NE, NW, etc. version I remember hearing about.
Don't forget that these ProDOS Eamons are the "top half" of the list.
Oh, I don't know. I enjoyed some of the old ones "way back when" :)
The EAG runs a rating poll of Eamons. The "top half" that I refer to is the =best= 100+ Eamons, and not the most recent ones.
OK, I get it now :) I /had/ wondered about the "spattering" in the lower numbers.
Saved game variables are normally BSAVEd in DOS 3.3.
Well, at least that's faster than writing them out. I guess the biggest problem I have with the bsave method is that (1) the file is (generally) fairly big, and (2) you're hosed if the program's length changes AT ALL.
[...] ProDOS Eamons use a VAR file for the quick-launch.
That makes sense. I've also used that method. I've even sometimes set things up with a separate program that just creates the vars, so the main program doesn't even have to have that stuff in it.
I don't really care how you get your Eamon to me. I prefer to do business through the US mail, but I'm not fanatic about it. 8-)
OK, I'll see what I'm in the mood for when I decide to ship it/them off to you :)
I grabbed the results of a search on "Eamon", but didn't notice mention in the short descriptions of whether a particular game is 40 or 80 columns in many cases.
The Eamons labelled "80-col." are 80-col. lower-case; the ones not labelled are 40-col. upper-case. Note that the names are different (the 40-col. ones have a "P" in the filename),
OK, so they're /all/ ProDOS! I must've misunderstood you; I thought (or had the impression) that both 3.3 & P8 versions were online.
This is mentioned in the library description, BTW.
Don't you just hate it when idiots ask questions that're answered somewhere already :) Seriously, I just did a file search. I haven't yet gone to the trouble to figure out how to select & look at a library (yes, I know it's documented).
Btw, where's the DOS 3.3 ones?
When I first started doing Eamon here in A2, I insisted on having both DOS 3.3 and ProDOS, in spite of warnings from the head librarian that this was a =>Bad Idea<=. Sure enough, in no time I started getting angry email from people who tried to run DOS 3.3 Eamons from the ProDOS Eamon Master.
Weren't the 3.3 versions disk archives? That should've been a pretty good clue. Oh well.
Also, you'd be quite amazed at how many people don't even know that DOS 3.3 exists, let alone what it is.
Oh, /I'm/ not amazed. I've encountered many people who aren't familiar with "ancient history". Try mentioning "][+" to some of these & enjoy their puzzlement :)
How do the download hits compare? 8-)
Where would I see this? I suppose I'm going to have to actually learn how to wander around in the libraries, huh ;)
I distribute both the 40-col. and 80-col. versions to the mail order outfits. GS users show a STRONG preference for 80-col.
I would imagine :) I suppose if I /do/ ProDOS-ify DoZ myself, I'll do both versions & send them to you.
my #16 is named "Furioso", while the one in the library is labeled "The Caves of Mondamen", and there's no Furioso elsewhere.
When I began the EAG in 1988, all the P-D vendors were using their own Eamon numbering systems. I was successful in getting nearly everyone on board to use the EAG as a central "clearing house" of Eamon, and the EAG number is "official" now. In other words, your number is wrong. *8-)
Hmfh. I got all of the early Eamons from the same source, and I'm pretty sure that he got them from either Donald Brown or a friend of his. Perhaps I should mention that I live in Iowa about an hour from Des Moines. I also got to play with his Eamon-predecessor "Death Star" game. (Btw, any idea where I might be able to find that now; I'm pretty sure I've lost it over the years, but I should check again sometime).
In any case, what number does "Furioso" now have, so I can relabel it?
The missing numbers in the A2 library are Eamons that didn't make the cut. [...]It's not the conversion but the testing that wears me down 8-(.
Completely understandable :)
Note that the poll listing is available in the Eamon library.
Getting it :)
So, how does one join your group, & what are the costs?
Dues are $7.00 per year,
Not bad at all! Perhaps I'll be sending you a check :)
I found an adventure named "The Den of Orion" written by a friend of mine...I was wondering if you have this one? If not, would you want it
=>YES<= I want it! I have not seen that Eamon listed or sold by anyone. I'd really like to add it to the list and put it into distribution. As far as "kosher" goes, all Eamon is public-domain (except for the two that Softdisk published) and free to one and all.
OK, I'll probably mail or e-mail that one to you pretty soon; I won't try converting it myself. I took a quick look and it doesn't look like many (if any) changes were done to the program, so I'll test it to make sure I have a finished game.
>>>CLANEY [Bob Claney]
V5 also contains the # of directions. This must be the NE, NW, etc. version I remember hearing about.
Not exactly, but close. V5 added the # of directions in conjunction with an upgrade to the DUNGEON EDIT program that made it capable of editing both 6 and 10-direction Eamons.
OK, so they're /all/ ProDOS! I must've misunderstood you; I thought (or had the impression) that both 3.3 & P8 versions were online.
I wound up nuking all of the DOS 3.3 Eamon stuff except for the basics such as the masters and the Designer Disks. The DOS 3.3 Eamon stuff is in Library 42, DOS 3.3 GAMES. The ProDOS Eamons are all in Library 36.
Don't you just hate it when idiots ask questions that're answered somewhere already :)
Heck, no. That's why there are people like me on staff around here, to answer questions and point out where to find stuff. I put in the bit about the Library description for the benefit of the masses who are reading our conversation. I'll wager that a lot of people don't even know about them.
Weren't the 3.3 versions disk archives? That should've been a pretty good clue. Oh well.
You would =think= so, wouldn't you? Their location in the "DOS 3.3 Games" Library might have been a clue, also. 8-)
How do the download hits compare? Where would I see this?
Every file has an entry for "Number of Accesses".
Hmfh. I got all of the early Eamons from the same source, and I'm pretty sure that he got them from either Donald Brown or a friend of his. Perhaps I should mention that I live in Iowa about an hour from Des Moines.
A bit of history is in order here. Don Brown invented Eamon, and it was sorta team-developed by Don, John Nelson, and some of the other guys in the Des Moines area who wrote the very first Eamons. Not long after Eamon was invented, Don figured out that there was Money To Be Made; he went on to write his "SwordThrust" series and abandoned Eamon. John Nelson took Eamon for his own, more or less, developing v4-6 and writing many of the best Eamons in the list. Don may have invented Eamon, but IMHO John is really "the father of Eamon", since Don wanted Eamon to die and was gone before it became a decent gaming system.
John Nelson and Bob Davis founded the National Eamon User's Club in early 1984, putting out a newsletter and selling Eamons. The earliest list that I have is in the August 1984 NEUC newsletter, which lists "Furioso" as Eamon #14. So there. 8-) I don't doubt that there was considerable confusion in the numbers in the early days before John and Bob started the NEUC and put things on a formal footing.
The EAG is the direct descendant of the NEUC. There was a formal transfer of mailing lists and funds, and everything else the NEUC had. John "went Blue" in 1986 and has never really looked back.
BTW, do/did you know Dan Cross? He's here too: D.CROSS5
I also got to play with his Eamon-predecessor "Death Star" game. (Btw, any idea where I might be able to find that now
Yep. Take a look at file 16926 ADVENTURE.2.BXY
what number does "Furioso" now have
It's #14. You'll get all 230 numbers and titles when you download the lists from the library.
Some last thoughts on you doing your own ProDOS conversion of your Eamon: please take a close look at a couple of Eamons in the library and try to duplicate the format as much as you can. I've made an effort to present a uniform player interface for the ProDOS conversions. In particular, please look at the startup and exit stuff and the Save stuff. It might be easiest for you to lift code wholesale from these areas, anyway. That's how I do it. 8-)
In any event, I =DEFINITELY= want a DOS 3.3 copy of your Eamon for distribution through the DOS 3.3 public-domain channels.
TomZ
Hi!
Bob Claney
I hope you pursue your Eamon project, it's always great to get another adventure in the inventory. What's it about?
Dave Grenda
Apple IIgs user since 1987
Sent via Spectrum & GEnie CoPilot v2.5
BTW, do/did you know Dan Cross? He's here too: D.CROSS5
Who's he?
-Ken
>>>KEN.GAGNE
BTW, do/did you know Dan Cross? He's here too: D.CROSS5
Who's he?
Dan is one of the early group of Eamon people in the Des Moines area back before Eamon "went national". I mentioned him to Bob because Bob is from the same area and also goes way back in Eamon.
TomZ
Tom,
This must be the NE, NW, etc. version I remember hearing about.
Not exactly, but close. V5 added the # of directions in conjunction with an upgrade to the DUNGEON EDIT program that made it capable of editing both 6 and 10-direction Eamons.
OK, OK, that's what I meant ;)
The DOS 3.3 Eamon stuff is in Library 42, DOS 3.3 GAMES. The ProDOS Eamons are all in Library 36.
I'm glad you put "DOS 3.3" in the descriptions, though. People who do a non-restricted search (like me) get them sorted alphabetically with the ProDOS stuff, & might not notice the different lib #.
Don't you just hate it when idiots ask questions that're answered somewhere already :)[Library description]
I'll wager that a lot of people don't even know about them.
Like me :)
Weren't the 3.3 versions disk archives? That should've been a pretty good clue. Oh well.
You would =think= so, wouldn't you? Their location in the "DOS 3.3 Games" Library might have been a clue, also. 8-)
Unless you don't happen to know what the lib number is (assuming you even notice it ;)
How do the download hits compare? Where would I see this?
Every file has an entry for "Number of Accesses".
I've even noticed it now :) Just eyeballing, it's hard to tell, since the 3.3 versions have (mostly) been there longer to dl, and not all numbers are in both versions. It'd probably be better, if it were even possible, to see a histogram-type display, to see if the 40-col stuff is /still/ being dl'd.
A bit of history is in order here. Don Brown invented Eamon, and it was sorta team-developed by Don, John Nelson, and some of the other guys in the Des Moines area who wrote the very first Eamons. Not long after Eamon was invented, Don figured out that there was Money To Be Made; he went on to write his "SwordThrust" series and abandoned Eamon.
Yep, I remember hearing of that at the time. As I recall, he wasn't very successful. (They were described to me as "fancy" Eamons.)
Because I labeled the first set of Eamons I received differently than the later set(s), I can tell what was in the first batch (which was definitely before Donald abandoned Eamon). Yes, "Furioso" is in that batch :)
[..]Don wanted Eamon to die and was gone before it became a decent gaming system.
Yep, as I understand it, he was surprised at how popular his gaming system was becoming, and he was (at least after the fact :) mainly honing his programming skills to move to the commercial arena with RPGs.
The earliest list that I have is in the August 1984 NEUC newsletter, which lists "Furioso" as Eamon #14. So there. 8-)
OK, then where's "The Underground City" (#14) now? I probably got the first set of Eamons around 1982, which had 1-4,7-14,16, and then a few more later on.
BTW, do/did you know Dan Cross? He's here too: D.CROSS5
The name doesn't really ring a bell, but then I'm /really/ bad with names. I've been trying to remember which person gave me the Eamons. I'm pretty sure it was Mike Plain, if that rings a bell :) (His /room/ makes an appearance in DoZ as an inside joke :)
I also got to play with his Eamon-predecessor "Death Star" game.
Yep. Take a look at file 16926 ADVENTURE.2.BXY
OK. What's the name got to do with "Death Star", btw? :) Also, do you know of anything else he might have done before that (that's the first thing I saw from him, but that might not mean much)?
You'll get all 230 numbers and titles when you download the lists from the library.
Lists?! Lists!? I don't see no steenking lists (sorry! ;)
OK, I've looked back over the results of the "eamon" file search, and found the following:
21222 EAMON.ADB.BXY X T.ZUCHOWSKI 930823 17664 45 36 Desc: Appleworks ADB of Eamon list.
and
23019 EAMON.LISTS.BXY X T.ZUCHOWSKI 940705 33280 22 36 Desc: Updates of six Eamon Lists
I suppose if all else fails, I can get the ADB file converted to text by someone, but it'd be handier to have a text version. I don't really know what the "Updates" refers to. If this /is/ the list of Eamons, then I'll grab it.
Thanks, btw, for posting the history! That brought back memories, and got me caught up on what happened in the last 10 years.
please take a close look at a couple of Eamons in the library and try to duplicate the format as much as you can. In particular, please look at the startup and exit stuff and the Save stuff. It might be easiest for you to lift code wholesale from these areas, anyway. That's how I do it. 8-)
That's what I was planning to do :) (I'd need to anyway to see how to return to the Main Hall.) I might see if there's other parts of the "new" code that would be easy/advantagous to copy over, too. Heck, if I can find my notes (from 12+ years ago, ack!), I might even try changing to the new file format and adding back some of the rooms I had to eliminate. Or not. Do you accept updates on games you've already added to the list? I might put that off & still get it done "someday", but get the quick & dirty conversion done & sent off to you.
Oh, I did look at one ProDOS game that had your conversion comment in it, and noticed that, although it had save/restore, it blindly wrote back the player in the original character record after leaving. Wouldn't this be a problem, or can I just do that, too?
In any event, I =DEFINITELY= want a DOS 3.3 copy of your Eamon for distribution through the DOS 3.3 public-domain channels.
Oh, OK. I might send that to you first, after I take a quick look through it, if I decide to email or post it. I haven't found my notes (with map), but I've done a quick look through the data files. I'll have to warn you that some of the descriptions use rather dated "val-speak" for humor, which might... puzzle the younger folks ;) It also has a lawyer who's weapon is a lawsuit :) I'd forgotten about that one!
Bob
Dave,
I hope you pursue your Eamon project, it's always great to get another adventure in the inventory. What's it about?
It's already done (in original DOS 3.3). I just have/want to convert it to ProDOS. As to what it's about, do you want a short description, or a longer synopsis (or the intro background story)?
The short one would be: Zenoqq is an evil wizard who's kidnapped the good king Maryex, so a group is hiring you to rescue him, giving you a magic staff, and promising a reward. I think they also mention that Zenoqq has a powerful weapon you'd get to keep, in order to bribe\h\h\h\h\h convince you to go on the mission.
If there's interest, I can post something more detailed about the actual adventure (there're subplots you need to get out of the way to get to Zenoqq). After all, there are 99 rooms, in 3 distinct sections.
Bob Claney
>>>CLANEY [Bob Claney]
OK, then where's "The Underground City" (#14) now?
That is Eamon #30 now.
Mike Plain, if that rings a bell :)
Hnh. Never heard of him. He apparently didn't get involved with the NEUC.
Apart from that Death Star game, I'm not aware of anything else that Don Brown did, just offhand. BTW, I found it by searching the ProDOS Games library (#33) for text adventures and checking the long descriptions of likely candidates.
The Eamon lists that you want are in this file:
23019 EAMON.LISTS.BXY X T.ZUCHOWSKI 940705 33280 22 36
Desc: Updates of six Eamon Lists
They are TXT files, sorted and arranged in different ways (by number, by title, by author, etc.)
Oh, I did look at one ProDOS game that had your conversion comment in it, and noticed that, although it had save/restore, it blindly wrote back the player in the original character record after leaving. Wouldn't this be a problem, or can I just do that, too?
Huh? Why would that cause a problem? It doesn't just blindly write back, but uses ONERR to insure that it is set to the original prefix where the CHARACTERS file was in the first place.
TomZ
Hi!
> Bob Claney
It's already done (in original DOS 3.3). I just have/want to convert it to ProDOS.
The description you posted was good. I wouldn't mind playing either version - it's not that big of a deal to play a DOS version. When will EAG process it so it can be uploaded to GEnie?
Dave Grenda
Apple IIgs user since 1987
Sent via Spectrum & GEnie CoPilot v2.5
Tom,
Mike Plain, if that rings a bell :)
Hnh. Never heard of him. He apparently didn't get involved with the NEUC.
Not as far as I know. In fact, he probably had his last contact with them before the official group even formed.
Apart from that Death Star game, I'm not aware of anything else that Don Brown did, just offhand.
From what I understand (3rd+ hand, of course), he started designing the "generic" adventure program after doing the Death Star game. I've dl'd the file, and notice that the game even has the original quit back to the "adventure hello" (or whatever name). If I manage to find the original disk, which has several text games on it, would there be any interest in me uploading it?
Well, I've looked through several of my OLD disks, and found DEATHSTAR, but I apparently no longer have the rest of the game disk it was on. The only other game who's name I can remember was IMHOTEP (dealing with building a pyramid in Egypt), although there was another adventure game that prompted you for a number before beginning, but I can't remember any more about it (other than it had a pit you could fall into). Do you have /any/ idea how I could try finding this stuff with my faulty recollection?
BTW, I found it by searching the ProDOS Games library (#33) for text adventures and checking the long descriptions of likely candidates.
I guess I need to start doing that when I can't seem to find anything via key search.
The Eamon lists that you want are in this file:
Desc: Updates of six Eamon Lists
OK, the description just threw me back.
[...] it blindly wrote back the player in the original character record after leaving. Wouldn't this be a problem, or can I just do that, too?
It doesn't just blindly write back, but uses ONERR to insure that it is set to the original prefix
The problem is that there's a chance that, in the meantime, the person has created a new character that happens to have been saved in the same record that the "currently absent" character was in. Somewhere, I know that there's a comment along the lines of making sure to use code similar to what "new character" uses to find an empty record if save/restore is possible in a game. Or, are people now warned not to start any new games while their saved game is in progress? Of course, this still wouldn't prevent a problem if multiple people are playing different characters.
Bob Claney
Dave,
The description you posted was good. When will EAG process it so it can be uploaded to GEnie?
Well, that'll probably be soon after I give it to them ;) I'm at least going to attempt to convert it myself, while looking for bugs. If I'm taking too much time, I'll just give the 3.3 version to EAG & let them do it. I'll probably tinker with it this weekend, & see how it goes. If you're /really/ interested in it, I could send the first "quick & dirty" ProDOS conversion to you via attached email.
Bob Claney
>>>CLANEY [Bob Claney]
The only other game who's name I can remember was IMHOTEP (dealing with building a pyramid in Egypt), although there was another adventure game Do you have /any/ idea how I could try finding this stuff with my faulty recollection?
Heh. I can't find half the stuff that I =know= I have in =my= disk archives. It would sure be neat to get some more Don Brown stuff uploaded. I don't recall ever having seen either of the games you described.
writing the character to CHARACTERS at end of play The problem is that there's a chance that, in the meantime, the person has created a new character that happens to have been saved in the same record that the "currently absent" character was in.
Well, yeah, this is =possible=, but how many people do you know who share a Master Disk or go messing around with the Character Generator between adventure forays?
Look, yes, you are right, this is a potential bug, but handling stuff like this is a real MAIN PGM memory eater, and we don't have any to spare to blow on luxury features that 99.99% of players will never need.
Personally, I don't use the Main Hall at all. I use FRESH SAM to launch Eamons. Lots of people do this, making it even less likely to occur.
TomZ
You don't even have to worry about writing over character records anymore- if you do, there is not a file on new versions of the Main Hall disk that let you edit and create characters.
Keep a DOS 3.3 version of Eamon around. (Tom Z does this anyway) People such as myself who don't really use Prodos that much appreciate it.
Tom asked Bob Claney...
->BTW, do/did you know Dan Cross? He's here too: D.CROSS5
And Ken Gagne asked Tom..
->Who's he?
And Dan Cross says..
I am an Eamon enthusiast, a Tom Zuchowski fan, and a Playground Sysop admirer. :) I can also say, I was once granted an ever so brief, audience with Don Brown. My first impression of 'The Don,' was buried deep within my own Eamon adventure, "The House of Horrors." An ever so subtle reference to Tom Z., is also lurking within.
Trivial Dan
p.s. That which doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger. - Nietzsche
>>>CLANEY [Bob Claney]
do you accept "updates" to Eamons that you already have? (I.e., bug fixes and enhancements.)
Sure, we're always looking for unknown bugs. If you provide the fix as well, so much the better! Every issue of the EAG newsletter lists the latest bugs and their fixes.
However, we actively discourage people who take an existing Eamon and make it "better". It makes bug and version tracking more difficult, and I am not comfortable screwing around with other people's vision like that without their signing off on it. I always say, let people write their own Eamons.
TomZ
Hi!
Bob Claney
If you're /really/ interested in it, I could send the first "quick & dirty" ProDOS conversion to you via attached email.
If it's not too much trouble, I'd sure be interestd in playing it. I'm not that great of an Eamon adventurer - I get stuck a lot. But I do enjoy playing it (when I have the time). My wife has helped me play a few of them too, it's one of the few times she actually does anything with my IIgs. Just remember, there's no pressure to get it done quickly or send it to me. OK? Rgab=ks!
Dave Grenda
Apple IIgs user since 1987
Sent via Spectrum & GEnie CoPilot v2.5
Frank Kunze and I am kicking around the idea of doing an upgrade to the MAIN.PGM. Right now, there are three items on the table:
Does anyone else have any good ideas?
Note that this will NOT be a GS-specific version. We hope to make it backward-compatible all the way back to the II+. However, at this time we are not ruling out production of a version that might be ProDOS-only, and cutting off II+ users is not out of the question. Although I'll move mountains to prevent that happening. <g>
It might also be worth mentioning that Eamon works under considerable memory constraints. We won't seriously consider any mods that require a significant memory hit unless the benefits are correspondingly large.
TomZ
Tom,
Sounds like a plan! Go for it...
-Ken
The "on the fly" text formatting sounds good- I haven't checked out "adventure in interzone" yet, so I don't know exactly how it works, but I do plan to implement it in my next Eamon.
Same for mixed case monster and artifaxt names- Without thinking about it a whole lot, it doesn't sound that tough to do.
As for mixed case input- what's the point? I mean, would it really be any easier to keep swiching cases? Just press the caps lock key down at the start of play and leave it there.
I would like to see some work done on the weapons situation. On using the character editor you can sometimes mess up the weapons. Sometimes a none is inserted and some times not. I don't have a preference, but would like you to look at that as part of the rewrite. Dave Cheever
I've never really messed anything up as far as the weapons through the character editor. I think if you don't use all 4 weapons, the one(s) that you leave blank need to be the ones at the bottom of the list. But I may be wrong. TomZ?
The only problem I had with the character editor is that if a weapon name is too long for what it accepts, the program crashes. (I think the weapon name was something like 18 characters or so long)
As the public-domain outlets diminish, I have become concerned that some Eamon adventures could possibly become lost through minor mishaps. Therefore, I've consulted with A2.SUSAN and gotten permission to upload the ENTIRE Eamon library to GEnie.
This is a ton of files, something like 400 uploads for DOS 3.3 alone.
I'm still thinking about how to label them for clarity. I intend that every file name, short description, and long description will indicate what kind of Eamon it is.
If anyone has any good ideas about how this should be pusrsued, I'd love to hear them.
TomZ
Just a quick note to you EAG members:
I have been out of town on business for the past four weeks. Now that I'm back, I have lots of stuff to get caught up, and the newsletter probably won't go out the door until next week. It has been written and assembled, and I have yet to get it mastered and printed up. This can take anywhere from two days to a week. %-)
TomZ
Tom, godspeed in your future uploads!
-Ken
If nothing else, just put the adventure name and number, the way most PD outlets listed Eamons in their catalog.
Or maybe type up a short (?) file with descriptions of all Eamons. This file coule be downloaded separately from the adventures.
Tom,
Is there a ProDOS Eamon? I've been looking around FOREVER trying to find one and haven't had any luck.
OH, and how's Eamon GS doing? I saw some screens from its developmental stages, but that was all.
Any ideas? :) :) :)
(Eamon Fan)
-Auri
Tom,
In your past newsletters, you usually have a paragraph describing Eamons that have just been released. Use those descriptions for the uploads. You have those newsletters on disk, right? It won't be easy, but I think it will save time over typing something new.
Dave Grenda
Apple IIgs user since 1987
Sent via Spectrum v2.0 & GEnie CoPilot v2.5
>>>A.RAHIMZADEH [Auri Man]
Is there a ProDOS Eamon? I've been looking around FOREVER trying to find one and haven't had any luck.
Hmmm. Where have you been looking for it? It sure wasn't here on GEnie. There are about 110 ProDOS Eamons in Library 36 here in A2! <g> That includes a full set of utilities and stuff. A2 has had ProDOS Eamon since 1990, BTW.
Eamon GS is totally in the toilet, as far as I know. The guy who was supposedly writing it never got beyond that "demo" that didn't do anything but print pretty screens. (At least, if he has, he's managed to keep it a secret from me. <g>)
TomZ
I am nearing the completion of the DOS 3.3 Eamon upload project.
My next project will be to edit the keywords so that they will serve much better in helping people find stuff. I will be including a set of special keywords like this:
EAMOND4 DOS 3.3, 40-col. EAMOND8 DOS 3.3, 80-col. EAMONP4 ProDOS, 40-col. EAMONP8 ProDOS, 80-col.
Other keywords will include the Eamon adventure number, the author's name, the type (fantasy, SF, contemporary, horror), and probably a couple of the more significant words from the title.
All of this info and more will be put in a special INFO file in the Eamon library, and I will probably redo the long desc's to point it out for people.
I would welcome and and all suggestions on what should be included in the keywords and the info file. Thanks!
TomZ
TomZ,
I REALLY appreciate all the time and effort you're expending on this Eamon project! I'll be able to have GEnie as my Eamon back up source - if one of my Eamons dies on the disk, I'll just downlaod a replacement from GEnie.
THANKS!!
Dave Grenda
Apple IIgs user since 1987
Sent via Spectrum v2.0 & GEnie CoPilot v2.5.5
+ Ken Lucke's Replacement Scripts
I'll echo Dave's thanks. A big piece of history is preserved due to your generosity & patience, Tom! Thanks!
So people really do read this category :) kinda quiet here sometimes. long live eamon, and all that fun stuff!
Good work Tom!
I may have to do a bit of downloading to fill out my Eamon DOS 3.3 collection. I'll take a few with me when I go visit my parents in July. There won't be any competing obligations, like there are at home, so I can play a few Eamons on their IIe.
Steve
I have given up reading books; I find it takes my mind off myself.
-- Oscar Levant
Yes, I read this section once a month. Long live Eamon! They are still lots of fun! Thanks Tom for the good work. I will have to use this to complete my l library.
I have completed the Eamon library keyword updates. To get details, check out this file in the library: file 25212, EAMON.KEYWD.TXT
The new keywords should help you find specific groups of Eamons and specific Eamons much more easily in the library now.
TomZ
After too many delays, I am finally compiling a list of EAG members' email addresses, to be published in the EAG newsletter.
If you would like to be included in the list, please drop me an email. Be sure to also give me any other email addresses you have besides GEnie.
I do NOT have a list of known Eamonauts here on GEnie. If you want to be included in the list, you must send me an email note.
TomZ
I've been informed that there is a Tolkien page on the WWW now that includes just about every kind of Tolkien-related computer game you ever heard of.
This includes all the appropriate Eamons. <g>
The URL is: http://www.lysator.liu.se/tolkien-games/
TomZ
For those of you playing with emulators these days, =the= place to get Eamon DSK files is ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/games/appleII/eamon/guild/.
The stuff on asimov is a mess and I cannot recommend it as an Eamon source.
TomZ
There is a new Eamon-related WWW page. Right now it is a work in progress, but it will eventually have all the EAG newsletters and all the Eamon games available, with lots of neat hot links. For example, if you want to see the review for an Eamon in the list, just click in the link and you will find yourself linked over to the review in the applicable EAG newsletter.
Check it out at http://www.ecnet.net/users/mumbv/pages/eamon/index.shtml
TomZ
Check it out at http://www.ecnet.net/users/mumbv/pages/eamon/index.shtml
TomZ
Thanks Tom. That sounds like a lot of work.
Bruce Baker Love my Apple 2e Internet: brb@tenet.edu
Thanks Tom! Would you want to add that URL to the topic header?
-Ken
Wednesday, May 29, 1996 - 9:11 pm
Tom,
Good job on the newsletter, as usual.
It's good of you to offer the full archived set of Eamons.
Since I don't use the full "free" 9 hours of Genie time most months, I have been using up my extra time at the end of each month by downloading these archives that you have uploaded. Since I only have access to 2400 baud Genie and Sprint nodes (even though my modem is a 14,400), it takes me about an hour to download each of the 800 K disks. So far, I have downloaded 7 of the 12 DOS 3.3 adventure archives.
Are the latest bug fixes already included in the archives or do I need to fix them?
MT Steve
If I have any beliefs about immortality, it is that certain dogs I have known will go to heaven and very, very few persons.
-- James Thurber
>>>S.BERNBAUM [MT Steve]
Are the latest bug fixes already included in the [Eamon] archives or do I need to fix them?
To the best of my knowledge (fingers crossed!) the Eamon archive collections in the A2 library were up to date as of the day they were uploaded to Genie. Of course, the A2 Eamon collection files will not include bug fixes that have been done since they were uploaded; you'll have to download the fixed Eamons separately, or do your own fixes.
Likewise, to the best of my knowledge the collection set that I am offering in the EAG newsletter is fully up to date.
TomZ
Friday, May 31, 1996 - 1:47 am
Tom,
Thanks for the info. I'll just check the last update date on the Eamons from the big archives and compare that to the dates from the newsletter.
MT Steve
Nothing is so aggravating as calmness.
-- Oscar Wilde
This morning I got a note from someone named "Toon" at ADCARNEV@U.ARIZONA.EDU that he has created an Eamon newsgroup. The newsgroup is alt.games.eamon.
I don't know who this guy is and am not involved with running this newsgroup, but hope to check in on it on a regular basis.
TomZ
I just learned that Carl Kenepaske, owner of Caloke Industries, has died suddenly. Caloke is consequently out of business.
Carl was a really good guy to work with. He set a very high standard for quality service in the mail-order public-domain software trade. He and Caloke will be sorely missed.
To my knowledge this leaves Kula Software as the only mail-order vendor dealing in 8-bit public-domain software in general and Eamon in particular. If anyone knows of any others, I would like to hear of them.
All of you who read everything, sorry for the multiple posts. I felt it was necessary to be sure that everyone gets the word.
TomZ