Message 1
A2.CHET [Head sysop] — Thu Oct 12, 1989 at 18:23 EDT
A2.CHET [Head sysop] — Thu Oct 12, 1989 at 18:23 EDT
Source:GEnie Apple II RoundTable Bulletin Board, Eamon topic 3
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An archive of the 23 messages posted to the GEnie Apple II RoundTable Bulletin Board, category #16 ("Eamon"), topic #3 ("Eamon Authors — Questions and Answers"). |
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David Cheever ( |
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Topic 3: Eamon Authors — Questions and Answers
Message 2
T.ZUCHOWSKI [TomZ] — Tue Jul 30, 1991 at 15:35 EDT
T.ZUCHOWSKI [TomZ] — Tue Jul 30, 1991 at 15:35 EDT
This topic has been archived and all messages before Jan 1 have been deleted. The archive may be found in Library 36, file 16213.
TomZ
Message 3
T.ZUCHOWSKI [TomZ] — Thu Sep 17, 1992 at 08:46 EDT
T.ZUCHOWSKI [TomZ] — Thu Sep 17, 1992 at 08:46 EDT
Mark and interested parties:
I did put that complete Eamon variable list together that you wanted. It was published in the Sept. EAG newsletter. I just recently uploaded it to the Eamon library here in A2. Look for file 19410 EAMON.VARS.BXY. It contains _every_ variable used in the MAIN.PGM, and includes a description of each variable's purpose and some additional text that further describes certain variables and their uses. There's also a couple of paragraphs about the difference between the ProDOS and DOS 3.3 versions.
I hope that this covers the subject for you. Give me a yell if you need any further clarifications.
TomZ, Eamon guy
Message 4
D.CHEEVER — Sat Jun 05, 1993 at 00:57 EDT
D.CHEEVER — Sat Jun 05, 1993 at 00:57 EDT
Tom- I would like to have my monster move around in the game area. Are there adventures that have moving monsters? Could you suggest a couple? Dave
Message 5
T.ZUCHOWSKI [TomZ] — Sat Jun 05, 1993 at 10:30 EDT
T.ZUCHOWSKI [TomZ] — Sat Jun 05, 1993 at 10:30 EDT
Dave, I've seen a couple of adventures that move monsters around; one that comes to mind is #23 "The Temple of Ngurct". I believe that Tim Berge adapted this program for his adventures, too. Unfortunately, these MAIN PGM's were so massively modified that they are virtually unreadable, so I don't think that you could use them for an example of how to do it. The kind of things they did were things like having a variable for EVERY constant in the entire program, and using special arrays for tracking stuff that is in the adventurer's presence. I tried really hard to figure out how they did it, and never really did.
But it wouldn't be hard to do. I would put all of the roving monsters together in the monster database, for easy counting. Say, for example, that the first 20 monsters are "rovers":
600 FOR M = 1 TO 20 610 IF RND(1) < .9 THEN NEXT: GOTO 900 620 GR = RND(1) * NR + 1: IF GR = M%(M,5) THEN NEXT: GOTO 900 630 IF GR = RO THEN PRINT M$(M)"JUST WALKED INTO THE ROOM!" 640 IF M%(M,5) = RO THEN PRINT M$(M)" JUST WALKED OUT OF THE ROOM!" 650 M%(M,5) = GR 660 NEXT
TomZ
Message 6
SOFTDISK.INC [Bryan Zak] — Sat Jun 05, 1993 at 20:29 EDT
SOFTDISK.INC [Bryan Zak] — Sat Jun 05, 1993 at 20:29 EDT
I'm curious--do you guys do all of this in Applesoft, or do you use something like MD-BASIC?!?
Bryan
Message 7
T.ZUCHOWSKI [TomZ] — Sun Jun 06, 1993 at 07:23 EDT
T.ZUCHOWSKI [TomZ] — Sun Jun 06, 1993 at 07:23 EDT
>SOFTDISK
Bryan, every Eamon author that I know uses an 8-bit Apple II or Laser. This pretty much rules out MD-Basic. *8-)
I get occasional threats from people that they are going to convert Eamon to a "real" language, but nobody ever does. The truth is that Applesoft does a decent enough job of string handling, and Eamon programs are about 90% string handling. The machine-code extension that version 7.0 uses (also used with "Redemption") takes care of Applesoft's slow array-search capabilities, the only real performance bottleneck for Eamon.
TomZ
Message 8
A2.DEAN [II Infinitum] — Sun Jun 06, 1993 at 16:56 EDT
A2.DEAN [II Infinitum] — Sun Jun 06, 1993 at 16:56 EDT
People DO use the various utilities like Program Writer, though.
And Eamon has an adventure creation utility, so most Eamon authors DO NOT have to write in Applesoft to create adventures.
Dean Esmay
Message 9
SOFTDISK.INC [Bryan Zak] — Sun Jun 06, 1993 at 17:45 EDT
SOFTDISK.INC [Bryan Zak] — Sun Jun 06, 1993 at 17:45 EDT
Ah! Dean answered my questions: I was just wondering if they were using Applesoft for all the program editing/creation.
Bryan
Message 10
T.ZUCHOWSKI [TomZ] — Sun Jun 06, 1993 at 18:37 EDT
T.ZUCHOWSKI [TomZ] — Sun Jun 06, 1993 at 18:37 EDT
Bryan, to clear up the confusion: Eamon adventures use a base program that accesses a database of rooms, monsters, artifacts, and special effects. Part of the "Dungeon Designer" utilities are Applesoft programs that the author can use to create and edit his own original adventure database. It is quite possible to write decent Eamon adventures without doing any programming at all, as Dean said.
However, most Eamon authors do some custom programming in order to do stuff that can't be done the way they want it with the basic program. "Redemption", like all Sam Ruby Eamons, has massive modifications from the base program.
TomZ
Message 11
SOFTDISK.INC [Bryan Zak] — Sun Jun 06, 1993 at 23:52 EDT
SOFTDISK.INC [Bryan Zak] — Sun Jun 06, 1993 at 23:52 EDT
Ah! I see said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw...
Message 12
D.CHEEVER — Thu Jul 29, 1993 at 21:38 EDT
D.CHEEVER — Thu Jul 29, 1993 at 21:38 EDT
Tom- In working on some Eamon adventures I have discovered that in version 7.0 the special every round section at line 500 is not checked for directional commands. In other words as long as you just give directions for your command this area of the program is not checked.... Is this intentional? Is there a way to check that without looping? My efforts seem to cause looping errors that give out of memory errors.
Also did you intend for monsters to just disappear [M%(M,5) =0] when they flee from combat? Is there a reason? Will it cause problems if I try to move them to an adjoining room?
Thanks.....
Dave Cheever
Message 13
T.ZUCHOWSKI [TomZ] — Thu Jul 29, 1993 at 22:31 EDT
T.ZUCHOWSKI [TomZ] — Thu Jul 29, 1993 at 22:31 EDT
>>>D.CHEEVER
Dave, yes, the "move" routine returns to 100 instead of 300 so that the player gets a chance to see what's in the room before he is attacked or anything special happens. Please feel free to change this to anything you like. *8-) BTW, this isn't a 7.0 feature; all Eamon versions work this way.
Um, I'm not at all clear how this exit can be causing "looping errors". I'm not sure what you mean by that other than your reference to OUT OF MEMORY stack overflows. There is no way that I am aware of that the GOTO 100 at line 3590 can cause looping errors. To the best of my knowledge, there are no open loops anywhere in the version 7.0 MAIN.PGM.
I guess that I'd have to see what you're doing in the "special" area at 500 before I could hazard a guess what's going on here. It sounds like you are leaving open loops in this area, perhaps?
Remember, if you change line 3590 to GOTO 300, then the player will be attacked as soon as he enters the room. If you change it to GOTO 500, then your special events will always be the =first= thing that happens on a "move" turn instead of the last thing. Such events are commonly put at around line 200,but of course you can do it any way that suits you.
Dave, the normal way to trigger special events on a move is by using a special room connection number, and checking for this number at line 3180. This method only works for individual room connections, but I imagine that this is what you are wanting to do, no?
I got rid of all fleeing monsters because I always thought that it was stupid for a frightened monster to flee into the adjoining room or down the hall and then just stand there, waiting for you to rejoin battle. There's no reason why you can't do that if you want to, EXCEPT in the case of multiple- monsters. Any members of a multiple-monster group will have to go into the bit bucket, since there is no way to split a multiple-monster into separate entities.
TomZ
Message 14
T.ZUCHOWSKI [TomZ] — Mon Aug 16, 1993 at 18:51 EDT
T.ZUCHOWSKI [TomZ] — Mon Aug 16, 1993 at 18:51 EDT
>>>DAVE.CHEEVER
Heh. You are getting really good at finding obscure problems, Dave. *8-) The 7.0 Eamon system has been around for 5 years and a bunch of adventures without these surfacing. But I'm not complaining! Keep 'em coming. Let's clean them out once and for all.
Regarding your cowardly neutral monsters bug: I'll work up a fix RSN. Off the top of my head, it looks like perhaps a good fix might be to add "FOR MC = 1 to 1" to line 330, but this will need testing.
Regarding code that you want to execute =every= turn: the usual place to put this is to shoehorn it into the space around line 200, just before the YOUR COMMAND? prompt. Alternatively, you could modify the MOVE code so it returns to 500 instead of 100. Which method to choose will depend on whether you want the monsters to move before or after the YOU SEE code.
TomZ
Message 15
KEN.GAGNE — Tue Oct 05, 1993 at 20:56 EDT
KEN.GAGNE — Tue Oct 05, 1993 at 20:56 EDT
Could Eamon possibly be converted for use as a BBS (Prime, Warp Six) door?
I once wrote an Eamon adventure. It was absolutely the most pathetic thing you'd ever see in your lifetime. However, I had done this a LONG time ago, when I passed it in as a school report. Got me an A+. I'm still ROFLing about that one.
Message 16
W.GOOSEY [ Goose ] — Tue Oct 05, 1993 at 22:44 EDT
W.GOOSEY [ Goose ] — Tue Oct 05, 1993 at 22:44 EDT
Could Eamon possibly be converted for use as a BBS (Prime, Warp Six) door?
Ken, there were three or four converted for use with Elite (and I think I had them converted to Prime for the most part). I thought I uploaded them. Search the libs for Keyword "Prime" and uploader W.GOOSEY. I also seem to remember Tom Z telling me that these were REALLY old versions of the EAMON adventures that they represented. He said something at the time about converting some for BBS use, but I think it got lost when Prime, Elite, and Warp6 interest waned....ie, when METAL/FV became FREEWARE.
:{{!}}GoosePilot 1.0.6{{!}}:
Message 17
T.R.ONAN [TRON] — Wed Oct 06, 1993 at 22:59 EDT
T.R.ONAN [TRON] — Wed Oct 06, 1993 at 22:59 EDT
Ken, I ran a BBS using the Elite software and tried to use the Eamon versions that had been put together for the Elite system. They were good games, they ran well under local protocol, however, if you called in and tried to play one of the three original games, you'd crash the system when your player was killed, I tried to fix these, but was never able to fix all of the lethal (to the BBS) holes that I found. I ended up shutting these features off. But then I ran a system dedicated to the messages posted by the users and since there were plenty of game systems around I really didn't want people calling JUST to play games.
Over the HILL? WHAT Hill? When? Where? I don't remember any Hill? TRON
Message 18
KEN.GAGNE — Thu Oct 07, 1993 at 18:30 EDT
KEN.GAGNE — Thu Oct 07, 1993 at 18:30 EDT
Tron,
An Iowa sysop says he tried to modify Eamon to run under Warp Six but had problems with users loading up characters, saving positions, etc. Things are always easier than they sound, I suppose. I'm content with the five doors I have now, anyways.
What hill? I don't know, but I saw Seven of them somewhere around here...
-Ken
Message 19
P.SCHULZ4 [PhilS] — Tue Nov 01, 1994 at 20:06 EST
P.SCHULZ4 [PhilS] — Tue Nov 01, 1994 at 20:06 EST
About that guy a few messages back about lines 500-900 in the version 7 Eamon- While doing the Eamons that I've written, I found that these lines are only executed after the player has been in the room for at least one turn.
For example, I wanted special effects to be printed immediately when the player entered a room. I found out that I needed to put that in the YOU SEE code (line 150, around there somewhere) and not in the 500-900 range. (Remember that one, TomZ, he he he)
Anyhow, once you have a decent grasp of Applesoft, Doing and/or changing an Eamon isn't that difficult. Granted, when trying some really odd special effects the code can get a bit convoluted, but that usually isn't the case.
Message 20
KEN.GAGNE — Thu Nov 03, 1994 at 18:34 EST
KEN.GAGNE — Thu Nov 03, 1994 at 18:34 EST
Too bad Eamon never got translated to Warp Six or Prime. It'd be a hit! But now we have The Complex II, which nobody can get to work...
-Ken
Message 21
T.R.ONAN [TRON] — Mon Nov 07, 1994 at 03:46 EST
T.R.ONAN [TRON] — Mon Nov 07, 1994 at 03:46 EST
Ken - Eamon never got translated to Warp Six or Prime.
There was at one time an Eamon runner for Elite, as well at Prime, however, when I had it, it never worked, seemed to crash the system, usually to the monitor whenever you died for one reason or another. I was never able to get it fixed. And I don't have it anymore either.
TRON - Life is short, don't let it Rush you, think for yourself!
Message 22
T.ZUCHOWSKI [TomZ] — Mon Nov 07, 1994 at 07:56 EST
T.ZUCHOWSKI [TomZ] — Mon Nov 07, 1994 at 07:56 EST
There was at one time an Eamon runner for Elite, as well at Prime, And I don't have it anymore either.
Might this be it?
20401 ELITE.EAMON.BXY X W.GOOSEY 930317 94464 19 39
Desc: Elite BBS Eamon Games (Three of 'em)
I've never understood how you could reasonably get something like Eamon to work well on a BBS, unless you are comfortable letting one user have the line for hours at a time. The above programs don't have anything added to provide for multiple-user saves.
I might add that the above games are old versions of these Eamons that run pretty darned slow and probably have other problems, too.
Seems like I recall that Lurch was working on BBS Eamon at one time. I never did hear how it came out.
TomZ
Message 23
P.SCHULZ4 [Phil S] — Wed Nov 09, 1994 at 18:44 EST
P.SCHULZ4 [Phil S] — Wed Nov 09, 1994 at 18:44 EST
The problem with BBS Eamon could be solved by limiting either the time or the number of moves a player could make in any one day- say 20 min. or 50 moves, something like that. The big problem that I see is how to save the info for all of the players that may be playing the game.